Electric outboards

[Old Forum]

Barend Nieuwendijk
Username: Barend_nieuwendijk

Registered: 08-2008
   
Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 10:35 pm:      
Hi Martin

Yust got home from the first trip with my WB with electric propulsion. I will try te put a story on this forum this week.
One thing I already can tell: because of the weight of te batteries (120 kg) the WB sails much more stable. We had hard winds today and with two reefs she sailed very well.

The rest of the story follows.

[Old Forum]

George Billington
Username: George_billington

Registered: 12-2009
   
Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 05:52 pm:      
Greetings All,

Having put my Mean Machine in the water, I found the Electric Motor pushed WB along reasonably well - it was a good Force 3, gusting (but only just) to a 4. This was on a large lake.

The lack of noise is quite different - and needs checking to make sure the drive is either going back / forward or neutral. The twist grip on my motor has a spring which is a little on the 'gentle' side - as I discovered after leaving the mooring, intending to head into the lake, and wondered why I was just about going back towards the shore - yes, I was in reverse! So a slight modification - application of a couple of blobs of white paint on the twist grip, and one on the steering arm, so I know which way the engine is going.

Otherwise it seems fine, and two other boats in the Club, a Pandora and Hunter Medina, are both using the same make and size of motor, which seems to push them along quite well - they weigh about 350 - 400 lbs more than the WB.

Battery storage is not such a problem - I've strapped an old plastic toolbox to the cross member where the motor is clamped, and it doesn't get under the feet, and performance seems unaffected - well a WB must have some sort of performance!

Can't vouch for effectiveness out on the tide, but the lake I sail on has an outlet to a large river, so we do get a small amount of current.

If anyone does fit one of these motors, don't get alarmed by the humming noise which increases as the boat speed increases - more noticeable when running - it's the propeller turning in neutral!

[Old Forum]

Martin_cartwright
Username: Martin_cartwright

Registered: 04-2008
   
Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 08:57 am:      
Thanks George. Which motor are you using? What do you estimate your range is on a single charge at average cruising speed?

Looking forward to hearing from you Barend.

[Old Forum]

George Billington
Username: George_billington

Registered: 12-2009
   
Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 07:15 pm:      
Hello Martin. I'm using a 55lb thrust Flover (am I allowed to advertise?). It uses about 4amp/hr, so IN THEORY, it should give anout 20hrs running with a 110amp leisure battery. So about 15miles? but at about 2 - 3 knots estimated. The engine does have a battery state indicator built into it, and it's interesting to watch it especially when going in fifth gear forward and then slowing to third gear! A couple of points to remember - this engine is about the largest one currently available which uses a 12v supply. Larger thrust ones are available, but they need 24v - probably 2 x 12v battery in series - lot of weight, and space taken up in the cockpit or cabin. I tried to get a 12v leisure gel filled battery, safer as no sloppy acid! My local garage were happy to oblige, and found one at a very good price, but not from their usual wholesaler. It was an Internet site, based in the UK. We were about to order when he told me of the problems another customer had had with a leisure battery, and we decided that the garage's wholesaler was safer, as we knew they would provide a three year warranty. Final point - I used this engine last season, probably about five hours usage in total, on a heavier boat, the battery was only charged at the end of the season, and was still quite well charged. Also, I had a solar panel on the other boat which gave a tickle charge - but I never measured the charge. Having said all of that, I'd be a bit apprehensive about relying on a battery driven engine, especially if the weather looked set to be nasty! Hope that helps

[Old Forum]

David Cawston
Username: David_cawston

Registered: 03-2007
   
Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 07:16 pm:      
Yes come on Barend, spill the beans, how did it go? Have you been in contact with the Electric Boat Association, someone with a WB with electric propulsion has been talking to them and they are very keen to get an article for their newsletter

[Old Forum]

George Billington
Username: George_billington

Registered: 12-2009
   
Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 07:28 pm:      
Hi Dave, they can use some of my observations above if they want,

[Old Forum]

Barend Nieuwendijk
Username: Barend_nieuwendijk

Registered: 08-2008
   
Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 12:09 am:      
Hi David,

Sorry for the delay.
I am so busy with work (and sailing) that there is no time left.
Hereby some details:

I have invested in a powerful electric propulsion. I have experimented with the Minn Kota stuff before, but that is to light weighted for an Winkle Brig. In Holland you need power to struggle the wind in canals

So I have:
A 2,5 KW motor which is mounted underneath the WB. It is a so called POD-motor
To make that possible I closed the well (with plywood , glass math and epoxy)
The water problem in the cockpit I solved with two holes (I can not find the right word for it)
The motor is very powerful (equivalent to 6 – 8 horse power)
The batteries are 4 x 6V heavy traction AGM (the are totally closed and can be held upside down), 225 Ah, weight ± 120 kg. I used the space where the portapotti used to be. The fit in exactly.
So I have 5400 watt to spare.
The time to fern differs with the speed: see the table. We measured this with a GPS. Its the average from no wind tot force 4 on the bow

speed
knts. current sailing time in hrs.
0,56 .... 3,00.... 60,00
1,11 .... 4,00.... 45,00
1,67 .... 8,00.... 22,50
2,22 .... 12,00.... 15,00
2,78 .... 20,00.... 9,00
3,33 .... 30,00.... 6,00
3,89 .... 40,00.... 4,50
4,44 .... 70,00.... 2,57
5 ..... 90,00.... 2,00

(from the 225 Ah you can use 80 % without harming the batteries)


I think I can get better performance because the propeller is not the right one. I need a bigger one with less pitch.

So far so good.
Next time I tell you more about my experiences, my studies on batteries, battery loaders, and so on.

[Old Forum]

Julian Swindell
Username: Julian_swindell

Registered: 03-2007
   
Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 03:14 pm:      
I have been interested in electric propulsion, but I can't make it make sense yet. By Barend's calculations, cruising at 3kts gives under 9 hours travelling time, with a battery weight of 120kg plus motor weight. My 6HP outboard with an external tank would cruise at that speed for probably over 24hrs, total weight about 35kg and only about 3 minutes to refill the tank almost anywhere on the coast. And you've lost your loo! Faced with that, I can't really see what the benefits of electrics are. On top of that, I keep my boat on a mooring so I can't see how I would recharge the batteries. What are the plus sides to it?

[Old Forum]

George Billington
Username: George_billington

Registered: 12-2009
   
Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 08:20 pm:      
The plus side is quite obvious - think of the exercise you'll get heaving the batteries back and forth, but you've spotted the biggest problem, I think - how do you charge the battery? Incidentally, I missed a decimal point in my earlier note - I probably will get about 3 hours usage at half speed, using a single 110ah battery so it's a long way to go to beat a petrol engine. I use the motor only because petrol engines are not allowed where I sail

[Old Forum]

Martin_cartwright
Username: Martin_cartwright

Registered: 04-2008
   
Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 07:04 pm:      
I think you are all being a little hard on Barend!
Plus points of an electric motor :-
1. Quiet when you want it to be quite ie when motorsailing which is quite common in my Winklebrig.
2. Weight of batteries can be moved forward to where the weight is needed. (Who wants/needs a chemical portaloo?!), leaving only the lightweight motor on the transom which is the worst place to have a heavy weight as it digs the stern in and increases drag through the water in the well.
3.Could you not have a cheap portable generator to boost the batteries in an emergency?
4.Unlike Julian I tow my boat to each sailing location. In these circumstances doesn't it seem sensible to use the (free)car generator to charge the batteries each time?
I for one am still very interested in the electric option, so keep posting Barend.

[Old Forum]

Barend Nieuwendijk
Username: Barend_nieuwendijk

Registered: 08-2008
   
Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 10:53 pm:      
I will, I will
I know all te pro's and contra's and will tell you why I choosed for te electric option.
But the next days I am traveling abroad, so you should have some patience with me.

[Old Forum]

Martin_cartwright
Username: Martin_cartwright

Registered: 04-2008
   
Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2011 - 09:41 am:      
What is the latest on the electric motor situation? There see to be alot of new products available. The Torqueedo 1003 with the solar panel charger looks interesting. http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/products/travel-503-1003.html
Anyone any views?

[Old Forum]

George Billington
Username: George_billington

Registered: 12-2009
   
Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2011 - 05:14 pm:      
You're right Martin, it does look interesting. The specification seems to be a 24v motor, which means at least two 12v in series? However, they don't need to be big heavy batteries, you could use smaller capacity, with of course a shorter usage time. The charger is certainly an interesting idea, but I wonder how long it would take to charge the battery(or batteries).

Has anybody looked into the idea of using solar panels to run the motor, without needing a battery? I've used a small panel on another Cruiser, which output 12v and kept the battery topped up, but the battery was used for a Cabin light and Instruments, so not a lot of power needed. It was mounted on the deck, not by me, in a perfect position for you to stand on it when needing to go forward. In spite of this, it worked fine, so they seem robust enough, but the output is the issue.

[Old Forum]

Martin_cartwright
Username: Martin_cartwright

Registered: 04-2008
   
Posted on Monday, January 31, 2011 - 04:52 pm:      
I was looking at the Torqueedo 1003 'Travel' model which has an integral battery and a remote throttle and which can apparently can be powered entirely from the solar panel without the need for the battery!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv0PD0X8qSg

What do you think?!

[Old Forum]

Julian Swindell
Username: Julian_swindell

Registered: 03-2007
   
Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2011 - 11:21 am:      
I would take some convincing. Quoting a cruising speed without any reference to the type of boat that is cruising sounds like hype. I think the solar panel sounds interesting, but it's main use woudl be keeping the battery charged, which it might do well. But I wouldn't want an engine that woudl die on me if it got cloudy.