Author Topic: Buying advice please  (Read 90 times)

John Burton

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Buying advice please
« on: November 09, 2018, 02:46:53 PM »
Hello and thank you for admitting me to the Forum, this is my first post.
Our family has sailed dinghies for over forty years, mainly on Coniston Water. It was there that we first saw "Hope" WB 107 and immediately loved the look of such a beautiful traditional boat. I see from this Forum that she belongs to David Bone. A month ago we saw Hope under sail and were very impressed, the internet search began!
There are two Winkle Brigs for sail at Apollo Duck, numbers 93 and 103.
No.93 has featured in this forum with much work being done over the years. The boat is being sold as the owner has passed away and his Widow has asked someone to sell it for her, very unfortunate circumstances. The boat is on a Snipe break back trailer.
No 103 has apparently been stood for a couple of years and needs a good clean. This one is on a Indespension trailer.
I appreciate both these boats need some work, but that seems to be reflected in the price and I would find it difficult to stretch to the cost of an immaculate boat. Although used to working on dinghies  I would greatly appreciate advice as to what specifically to check out when viewing a Winkle Brig. I have extensively read through the forum about repairs etc and have gained some very useful knowledge, but any further advice would be most welcome.
Very many thanks in advance.

Martin

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Re: Buying advice please
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2018, 03:55:34 PM »
Hi John.

I haven't looked at the two boats in detail, but in general my advice for a boat being sold for less than 5,000 would be as follows:-

1. Have a good look at the engine and trailer. A new trailer and engine would cost about 4,000, so that dwarfs the value of the boat. Don't forget to look at the tyres. If you need three new ones straight away it would be annoying.
2. Personally I think a 2hp engine is  too small - But it really depends where you are going to sail.
3. For boats of this age the fibreglass colour is likely to be getting cloudy. A professional hull respray will be  expensive so go for the one with the shiniest hull - It will last you longer.
4. Although the fibreglass can easily be repaired/strengthened, look for stress cracks. Around the base of the mast. Rear cockpit lockers. Sagging cockpit seats.
5. Original sails are likely to be quite misshapen by now. Have a good look at them. These are relatively expensive items to replace, but sailing with baggy sails is quite depressing!
6. I wasn't able to check the rig on the two alternatives, but be aware that some have a high peek gaff and some have a topsail. Both have their merits but be aware of what you are buying.

I am sure there is much more than this to look for and others will be able to add to my list.

Good luck. You won't regret being a Winklebrigger.
 

   

John Burton

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Re: Buying advice please
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2018, 04:49:43 PM »
Thanks very much Martin for your advice, very useful and it gives me some good pointers as to what to check.
I had thought at least 4 HP would be necessary having been used to a 4 HP on some dinghies in the past.
I know one trailer needs new tyres, but that is going to be accounted for, both are otherwise apparently sound.
The rig was one of the things I was going to check, I won't ask which is best as I see both alternatives have keen followers!
It's the fibreglass structure that concerns me so thanks for pointing out the places to check.
I will let you know the outcome and I'm sure I will be posting many questions in the future.
Thanks again.

David Bone

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Re: Buying advice please
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2018, 05:46:04 PM »
Hello John,
From your research on the forum, you will have established that the Winklebrig is a robust, well designed little vessel, with few faults.
As WB93 & 103 are later models, they will benefit from a 2" higher coach roof than earlier ones, also should have externally removable, composite bilge boards and a lighter plywood rudder, both desirable features.
Components used at build, including wooden bulwarks, are of good quality, easily removed for renovation if necessary.
In general, maintenance on a Winklebrig is pleasurable and need not be expensive.
Of the two mainsail options, having used both, I prefer the High Peaked Gaff but as you say, others equally favour a Low Peaked Gaff and Topsail.
Indespension trailers are well made and replacement/upgrade parts readily available.
I wouldn't be too worried about a cloudy hull. Mine, of the same vintage, spends at least 6 months each year on the water and gets its fair share of dings, yet on retrieval, four hours work with T-Cut, restores it to near new appearance.
At the competitive price asked, both boats are well worth a visit.
If I can be of any help, give a call at Tel: 01229 585368.
As Martin says, you won't regret being the Owner of a Winklebrig.
Regards: David


dave_cawston

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Re: Buying advice please
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2018, 05:54:28 PM »
Hi John,
To add my bit to what Martin and David have said, both of these WBs have plywood bilge plates with cast iron shoes.  The plywood can deteriorate/split/warp/rot and the cast iron can rust, both leading to plates getting jammed.  Thoroughly check their condition.  The earlier WBs had grp plates that do not deteriorate.  Baggy sails, we still have the original (now very baggy) sails which still get us around fine, especially down wind. I am a topsail fan, more ropes to have fun playing around with and the topsail makes a WB look so much better, personal opinion.  Although we now have a 4hp 2 stroke Mercury, we have used a 2hp on a couple of occasions, fine if you are not wanting to get somewhere quickly or punching in to waves/wind/current.  Apart from possible impact damage, the only possibly serious grp damage might be , as Martin says, at the foot of the mast, caused by having the rigging too tight and trying to pull the mast through the cabin roof.  Small gelcoat cracks are generally not a problem.  As these are both later WBs, there will not be the problem of delaminating/detatched bilgeplate housings, a big plus point.
I was visiting Roger Parish last week, former owner of Partan.  How he regrets selling her and he was looking at these two and feeling very tempted!!   
Dave Cawston

John Burton

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Re: Buying advice please
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2018, 07:02:28 PM »
Thank you very much David and Dave. I had no idea of those later features. There is obviously a lot to check out on both these boats. Interestingly both appear to have originally had green hulls. Number 93 when named Liberta is shown in the gallery before having the hull sprayed white, I don't know if 103 is still in the original gel coat or whether that has been painted. 103 with its green hull and tan sails would have a beautiful traditional look rather than a white hull and the white sails of 93. I suppose it will all come down to seeing the boats for real rather than relying on photos. Thank you for the offer of phoning you David, I may well do that having viewed them as I am sure there will be points I need clarifying.
As for maintenance being pleasurable I often feel that's the best bit about boats, just tinkering , modifying, repainting etc. I am currently restoring a Mirror Miracle, but that will now have to go when a Winklebrig comes home.
Thank you once again.