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Messages - RogerH

The Hull / Re: Delaminating Bilge Board
September 03, 2021, 09:37:12 AM
Again, for info:

CFS in Redruth were able to arrange a (more expensive) delivery via courier on Saturday - for certain items only (CSM, rollers and brushes were OK, but perhaps resin and large stuff might not qualify). It cost a bit more than I'd hoped but I can get the job done over the weekend - cost benefit analysis and all that!

Note to self - do not assume you can do things at the last minute! Amazon Prime don't do GRP supplies very well...
The Hull / Re: Delaminating Bilge Board
September 03, 2021, 09:01:36 AM
Thanks John. I discovered them yesterday, sadly _after_ the cutoff to receive items by today. Unfortunately what I order today would not get here till Monday - just a bit of bad timing. They do come well recommended from many sources and I will use them without doubt next time!

Just a heads-up then for anyone else planning on using them - there's no weekend deliveries - order before 1pm for next day delivery, Friday will get you a delivery on Monday.

I must admit I hadn't anticipated any difficulty in buying GRP supplies, living on the south coast as I do, but it's proved impossible to find a local supplier where i can just go and buy stuff over the counter - well, it _is_ over 20 years since I last tried! One ex-supplier mentioned COSHH as an issue - which of course is a good thing but I hadn't thought far enough ahead.

I'd hoped to re-glass the board this weekend - I'm now searching for any supplier I can drive to on Saturday morning!

Does any of you know of a supplier in or around Sussex where I can buy over the counter? Worth a try!
The Hull / Re: Delaminating Bilge Board
September 02, 2021, 09:51:40 AM
I've had a go at the board wih the trusty old grindeer - as I suspected there's a mild steel plate in the lower half.

I need to cut back to where the grp is still bonded to the glass, then grind a chamfer into the edge - about 6:1 should be fine - then build the glass back up. The thickness of the laminate is around 8mm, which might create quite a bit of heat while curing, so I'll do it in at least two stages, waiting for the previous application to be at least part-cured before applying the new layer.

If I do this while the old layer is still plastic, but not tacky, I'll still get a good chemical bond. At least, that's what I remember from my brief time at Prout Catamarans more than 20 years ago!

If there are any grp gurus out there, please feel free to weigh in with advice! Please? Pretty please? It was a long time ago I last did any glasswork!

EDIT: Obviously I'll grind the steel back to bright metal before priming with a coat of epoxy.
Miscellaneous / Re: Book just published
September 01, 2021, 10:11:21 AM
Kindle edition bought!
Miscellaneous / GRPSupplier
September 01, 2021, 10:09:28 AM
Hi all, forgive the double post, but I'm thinking maybe not everyone is reading my bilge-board repair thread.

General question to all - which fibreglass supplier do you use? I need to start thinking about buying some CSM, woven rovings etc. - does anyone have and info on who to use? Thanks :-)
The Hull / Re: Delaminating Bilge Board
September 01, 2021, 10:08:01 AM
General question to all - which fibreglass supplier do you use? I need to start thinking about buying some CSM, woven rovings etc. - does anyone have and info on who to use? Thanks :-)
The Hull / Re: Delaminating Bilge Board
September 01, 2021, 10:06:42 AM
My pleasure Barend!
The Hull / Re: Delaminating Bilge Board
August 26, 2021, 09:37:17 AM
Sorry for the delay in the next episode! Busy weekend and week.

So I got the board out. As previously mentioned, I couldn't rotate the board far enough down-wards to draw it out of the slot forwards, since the back end of the board came into contact with the top of the casing before the front end was low enough to pull out uinderneath the trailer crossbeam. The answer was to remove the crossbeam! I was a bit nervous to do this, but looked at and thought - well it's just a couple of steel tubes and a u-bolt.

I suppoerted the front of the boat with jacks, used a sharpie to mark the crossbeam and the frame of the trailer to show where it needed to go back, and got to it.

It came off fairly easily - and the board was easy to slip out forawrds after that. The weight of the boat deforms the trailer slightly and the crossbeam was holding that in place, so once I got the beam off, the trailer moved about 6mm. On replacing the crossbeam afterwards, a bit of persuasion with the rubber mallet while inserting the u-bolt did the trick.

So now I have the board out and the trailer re-constructed, it's time to break out the grinder (and goggles, proper respirator, gloves, long-sleeved garment and masking tape to seal the gloves to the sleeves - yes, I have ground grp before, lol!)
The Hull / Re: Delaminating Bilge Board
August 20, 2021, 02:27:46 PM
Done it! The board is out. Fuller post and pics to follow. Apologies for all the question marks in these posts - fir some reason apostrophes and dashes are not recognised.

If the mods are watching, would you like me to write this up as an article? Once I have gotten the board back in and Jeny hasn?t sunk, of course!
The Hull / Re: Delaminating Bilge Board
August 19, 2021, 09:05:32 PM
This was ?crunch time? Would I be able to drive the pin out? Drascombes have a groove round either end of the pin a little way from the end, to help retain it athwartships ? if this were the case with the Winkle Brig, I might need to exert a bit more force that possible in such a confined space. As it was, no shoulder on the pin and it came out very easily.

I went back underneath and gingerly began to back off on the jack supporting the board, but it?s quite light at that end ? no need to worry ? and I lowered the board by hand, anticipating I would be able to lower the forward end to the ground and then slide it out underneath the trailer.

This is where things went a little awry!

As the forward end of the board went down, the aft end went up and came into contact with the top of the casing. The trailer crossbeam stopped me from getting the board far enough forward to pivot it further, so it?s not coming out that way!

The solution I can see is to support the front of the boat and remove the crossbeam with the forward rollers from the trailer. The boat will be well supported at the aft end and unable to topple. That way I?ll have a clear space to draw the board out forwards.

T seems a bit drastic to start dismantling the trailer, but I can?t see any other way. However, some of you may have done the same thing and found a better solution ? anyone got a solution to dropping the board out of the boat while on the trailer?
The Hull / Re: Delaminating Bilge Board
August 19, 2021, 09:03:53 PM
Well it?s taken me a couple of days but I got the board out ? well, almost (see later)

I cut another access hatch this time in the side of the saloon berth ? giving direct access to the board retaining pin. This hatch was far more difficult to cut as I couldn?t get any kind of saw into the small space between the hole and the floor (and the hole and the aft end of the Vee berth) to cut. I got the jigsaw in from 9 o?clock to 3 o?clock but after that it was chain drilling and a Chinese rasp.

I was then able to get my power file into the hole and dig around for the pin. A bit of guesstimation ended up nice and accurate and I exposed the inboard side of the pin at my first try! Chuffed.

Further measuring and guessing bore equally satisfying fruit and I got the outboard end of the pin exposed in quick time.

I went back outside and supported the board  at the pin end ? I have no idea how much it weighs and I didn?t want it dropping out of the casing wioth the pin partially removed, potentially deforming the pivot hole in the board or the holes in the casing. I also made register marks on the board and hull so I would be able to line it up to re-mount it.
The Hull / Re: Delaminating Bilge Board
August 17, 2021, 07:50:04 PM
I cut the access hole and was pleased to see the top of the board casing is pretty-much where I expected it to be.

Even better, the pin is retained by glass patches over the ends of it, so removal of those patches will be (relatively) easy and I'll be able to expose the pin.

Driving it out might be an issue - I intend to support the weight of the board from underneath the boat and drive the pin out from the side. I'll need to cut a further access hole on the seat-front, but it's looking promising.The inboard side of the retaining pin is visible as a glassed-over lump on the inboard of the casing - I need to remove the foam on the outboard side to check it's the same - I see no reason why it wouldn't be.

Photos will show what I mean, I hope!
The Hull / Re: Delaminating Bilge Board
August 17, 2021, 04:15:49 PM
Once again for the benefit of anyone following the post, I?ve managed to answer at least one f my queries.

The bottom edge of the board is somewhere between 12? and 13? from the centreline. Allowing for the fact that they are angled off vertical I estimate the top edge could be 2? - 4? inboard of that, so between 11? and 8? from the centreline.

The inboard side of the saloon seat is about 6? from the centreline at the approximate location of the pin. This means I?ll have somewhere between 5? and 2? clearance with which to work between the board casing and the seat front 

Depending on how the pin is retained, 5? or a bit less could be enough - if it?s glassed over either end like a Drascombe. So the current plan is to cut a round access hatch over the area and probe through the foam to find the top of the board casing. With luck that?ll tell me what size of cutout I need to make.

Fingers crossed!
The Hull / Re: Delaminating Bilge Board
August 17, 2021, 09:30:16 AM
Thanks for the continuing help gents.

David Bone - thanks for the steer there. It looks to me as if the board casings are very close to the inboard face of the seats - this might make it difficult or impossible to get a grinder or other tool in between the board casing and the seat-front to remove the glass holding the pin in place.

Dave Cawston - do you have any recollection of how big this gap is? Long time ago now, I realise :-)

For the benefit of anyone else following this post I've attached the photo from the "Day Boat Centreboard Jammed" post as mentioned by David Bone in the previous post here. You can see from the photo that the rods installed come out very close to the front of the seat, suggesting if I only take the top off the seat I will have very little room to work in.

I'm still loath to take the entire mouldings out - they will add significantly to the stiffness of the hull - so I'm still toying with the idea of cutting out a panel. The other photo here shows my current thinking. Firstly, to cut out an L-shaped piece extra art shown in blue) to allow better access to the inboard side of the pin. But that might not give full access if the pin extends inboard under the floor, so perhaps I might need to extend it across the floor a little - extra shown in green.

This is getting a bit more nvolved than simply cutting an access panel in the top - but unless I take out the entire moulding I can see no other way.

It all rests on whether or not the glassing to retain the pin extends under the floor - Dave Cawston can you remember?

Any further thoughts, David, Dave or anyone else?



EDIT - also, how far aft are the pins from the end of the vee-berth? It may be I don't have to cut right back to the locker recess?
The Hull / Re: Delaminating Bilge Board
August 16, 2021, 11:43:24 AM

I've had a good look around outside and inside - I think the pin will be under the area highlighted in the photo.

The plan is to cut out an opening similar to that marked, leaving enough lip to fasten flanges underneath so the cutout will fit back on them.

The area is filled with expanding foam by the looks of it.

Does anyone have any experience removing this material? Looks like a hacksaw blade (or maybe a bread knife) and lots of mess to me, lol! The plan is to remove it piecemeal and expose the pin, with enough room to work.

Any thoughts or comments?