The Winklebrig Forum

Responding to Gerold & David's inputs, here are some initial impressions of the Torqeedo Travel 1003CS.

1/ Gerold notes that the propellor rotates under sail at speeds over 2.5 knots.
So far, at speeds up to 4.5 knots, I have noted no rotation and think this is probably due to the unit being sited higher, with the 2 bladed propellor shielded fully behind the keel.

2/ Attached is a table of speeds, time and distance ranges achieved at a trial on Coniston Water and wonder how this compares with Gerold's experiences.

3/ At 3/4 throttle and above, there is considerable turbulence and backwash in the outboard well, which will be holding back some potential speed and in the longer term, I may well fit removable baffle plates in the bottom of the well. (a.k.a. Roger Parrish) My higher propellor position probably makes this more noticeable.

4/ Whilst certainly much quieter than a petrol outboard, the unit is by no means silent and above 1/2 throttle, there is a fairly high pitched whine from the gearbox.
(Competitor, EPropulsions's, comparable unit has a direct drive, brushless DC motor, which is apparently quite and of lower pitch.)

5/ To lock the battery to the motor unit, a long pin is inserted from the side, too long to be fitted whilst in the well, so the whole unit has to be assembled before lowering into position, which is a nuisance.  The battery is fairly well secured on the motor with location lugs and unlikely to dislodge, so I made a shorter hardwood pin, allowing me to secure the motor on the mounting bracket, then fit the battery and lock it on one side whilst in the well. Due to restricted space around, I think the boat would have to near capsize for the battery to fall off.

6/ Response, ease of use and hence manoeuvrability is greatly enhanced over a petrol outboard.

7/ The tiller/control unit display information is comprehensive and most useful. (Not least under sail.)

8/ In the past, I have usually only used the outboard when essential, for about 20 mins each outing, so for this use range would not be an issue but I plan to make more use of this electric unit and it remains to be seen whether one battery will provide sufficient resources.  Current thoughts are that the manufacturer's battery duration claims are optimistic and I am a little disappointed. (Additional batteries are unfortunately, very expensive.

These are very much first impressions and may change with more experience.

Hello Gerold,
My experience with the Torqeedo is recent and limited, so I haven't yet fully established its qualities.
Intended use is on the English lakes, where I feel it should do well and also be more environmentally friendly. (Noise, fumes and safety with grandchildren overnighting.)
However, I do agree, that for the sea, it would be inadequate and a petrol outboard is presently the only viable solution, so have retained my Mariner 4 for this use.
Return greetings from Cumbria.
David
........

I recently installed a Torqeedo 1003CS on W/B 107.
When mounted on the originally positioned outboard bracket, the fin of the motor projects about 4" below the keel and as I have an attraction for shallow water, with the occasional grounding, I moved the bracket up by 110mm.
By inserting 10mm spacers behind the bracket, the battery clears the well back plate by about 5mm, without modification and the forward end of the propellor hub clears the aft end of the keel by 15mm.
In operation, this works o.k.
I elected to install the optional remote controller, instead of the tiller, as I felt this would intrude too far into the cockpit and be a nuisance. The remote is bolted to a right angled plywood bracket, angled up by 30 degrees for screen visibility, which in turn is bolted through to the port locker, secured by hand tightened wing nuts, permitting removal after each outing.
Attached, should be a couple of photographs, illustrating the installation.
David Bone

I wouldn't worry too much, whilst it may be very desirable to upgrade your trailer, I am sure there are plenty of Winklebrigs being towed around the place with just the same trailer. I certainly know of one, around the same vintage as yours, which has been the length and breadth of the Country over several years
If the trailer has been well supported and protected it should get you home okay and you can review the situation then.
Good luck. 

High Peaked Mainsail:

High Peaked Gaff Mainsail.

My boat came with the standard Low Peaked Gaff Mainsail & Topsail, which, with minor modifications, have served me well for 7 years but I rather fancied the High Peaked Mainsail, offered as an option with original build.

From Arun Sails, successors to the original makers, I tried without success, to get a dimensioned drawing of the HP sail.
In the end, Mike Seller (WB 95) supplied me with a measured drawing of his original HP sail.
From this as a basis, Goacher Sails of Bowness, made me a good new sail at a reasonable price.

Longer spars were required, so first class spar timber was obtained from Robbins, again at a reasonable price.
(Spruce for the gaff and Douglas Fir for the boom.)
Jaws, in the original style, I fashioned from Ash for the boom and laminated Ash/Iroko for the gaff.

Finally completed this winter, the new arrangement has been put to the test and I am well pleased.
The sail is easy to hoist and lower, the boat feels better balanced, with weather helm reduced.
I am sure she sails better to windward, than with low peaked gaff alone and I am less bothered by gusts than when the topsail was set.
At an area of 115 ft2,( Less than main+topsail but more than main  alone.) and more of the sail near the foot, I feel confident in a moderate wind.
I haven't yet been out in a wind strong enough to require a reef and will be interested to see at what force this is needed.
Following my original sail, reefing points were placed at 700mm & 1,400mm above the foot. I am not sure this is the best placement and think perhaps, 500mm & 1,000mm might be better. Experience will tell and I will amend if necessary.

Two recently added photographs in the 'Gallery'show the boat under sail.

Rick's advice is very sound.

I think you will get different responses, depending on how people set up their boat and what rig they employ.

I have the more common low peaked gaff with topsail but also have about 80kg additional internal lead ballast and a 20kg battery installed under the companionway, so my comments don't really apply to your vessel.

Sailing alone, I carry full jib, mainsail and topsail up to fc.3 but with anything other than an occasional fc.4 gust, I drop the topsail alongside the mainsail.
I am o.k. with full mainsail and jib in fc.5.
Fc.6, I will take a reef in the mainsail but keep a full jib. (With a reef in the main, upwind performance is somewhat affected.)
I have sailed comfortably in fc.6 with a second adult onboard, setting full mainsail and jib, in fact I find the boat goes really well powering up into the wind but I have to pay attention.

I have sailed in gusts to fc.7 with two onboard and a reef in the main, when in company with other boats we fared quite well but I didn't want to be beaten and had to stay alert.
Last year I got caught out with gusts up to fc.8, which was too much. We had 4 onboard at the time, which helped but also hindered, as there was too much weight aft, the boat wasn't well balanced and we took a lot of water onboard.

All of this can be greatly affected by how much sea is running and how comfortable one is pushing the boat hard.
(Following Martin Cartwright's lead, I have strengthened the boat by installing an inner forestay, 2nd mastband with a 2nd set of shrouds and a mast compression post.)

This year I have fitted a high peaked gaff mainsail, without topsail and am looking forward to seeing how the boat sails.

David Bone

Hello Gerold,

Thanks for the information.
Good sailing.

David.

Hello again Gerold,
I am very interested to learn how your new aluminium drop boards have worked out.
I currently have 25mm ply boards with approx. 5kg lead inserted in each, a protective brass keel band on the lower edge and a metal shoe at the after end, giving a weight of 18.5 kg. each.
Because the ply has warped a little, hindering free movement, I may rebuild the boards next year and your approach with dimensioned aluminium plate looks well worth consideration.
I am estimating your weight per board as approx. 24 kg?
Have you left them at this weight or faired the edges to reduce same?
From Martin's handbook, I understand the steel encapsulated plates fitted to earlier models weighed around 27 kg each.
Lastly, what protective paint coating program have you used.
Regards.
David

Hello Gerold,
If you haven't already made new boards, I suggest you check out their length.
On my boat, (#107) with standard 1,300mm length boards, I found the hauling line spigot in the top of the case was 50mm aft of the lead from the board, making it difficult to bring the board fully home.
As there was sufficient free length in the board casing, I lengthened the boards to 1,350mm, aligning spigot with line lead, making housing easier.
To stop me crashing the boards against the top of the housing, with new found enthusiasm, I screwed a rubber door stop to the top edge of the boards, near the aft end.
Regards
David
........

Hello Roger,

Welcome to 'Winklebrigs.'

Colin and Jayne Firth first introduced me to a 'Winklebrig' when they gave me a detailed tour of 'Jenya Tan' in 2009.  Later that year I purchased 'Hope' (#107), which continues to provide me with a lot of enjoyment in use and quite an interest in experimentation.
Colin was meticulous in his care of the boat and I am sure it is well equipped, in good condition.
He used it extensively over a wide area, living onboard, including transiting the Caledonian Canal, Norfolk Broads, the Thames, Falmouth and the Lake District, where we have often sailed together with the DCA.

Through the forum and Martin Cartwright's excellent handbook, you will discover some of the Winklebrig's idiosyncrasies and the many different ways owners handle same.
Overall, I think you will find she is a timeless, robust, characterful boat, which can sail quite well and offers a lot of usable accommodation, whilst retaining a good sized cockpit in a small package.
There are many features of her design, which are really well thought out and she is always a pleasure to view, sailing, at anchor, tied up and even sitting on the trailer.

David Bone.

Consequent to my previous entry re consolidation of 60kg lead ballast under the cabin sole:
Last week I enjoyed two sustained sails, one with force 3, under topsail and one at force 5, without topsail.
I really felt that with this latest adjustment everything came together well. The boat was light on the helm, tacked quickly, handled gusts well and dare I say it, surprised me both with her 'speed' and ability to close the wind.
Together with the incorporation of a drop plate rudder and other amendments, including, thanks to Martin Cartwright's lead, (Inner forestay, two mast bands, extra shrouds and internal mast compression post.) I consider to now have a robust, well handling little boat of character.
Next step is fitting a high peaked gaff mainsail and later perhaps a larger jib.
Goacher Sails of Bowness have made a mainsail based on Mike Seller's high peaked sail. (WB95)
It now needs me to fashion a longer yard and boom, which given my usual rate of progress, will probably take till next year.

A couple of weeks ago, I was with sailing friends on the shore of Windermere, one of whom has an imaginatively improved, often used Winklebrig, (WB69) on a mooring. Discussing various boats, asked what he would really like. His answer: 'I am very content with what I have,' says a lot.

Hello Ken,
I contacted my friend with the kicking strap and broken tabernacle. He advised the the back of his tabernacle split along the grain line, so constructed the replacement in two layers with the grain running at 90 degrees.  He has refitted the kicking strap but I understand that he really thinks it is of little effect and concurs with Martin's comments/recommendations.

There are differing opinions about added ballast but I find it very beneficial. This winter, after experimenting for several years with quantity and location, I decided to fit lead shot encapsulated in epoxy, as low as possible, under the cabin sole.
60kg of shot was accommodated, at a SG of approx. 8.2.

The inner lining was cut out using a multi-tool, to within 35mm of the sides, 50mm from the forward end and aft to near the companionway.  Foam buoyancy underneath was scraped out and the inner hull cleaned.
(The black circle identifies a drain hole with plastic hose, cast in the keel ballast leading to the aft bilge well, fitted on build.)

Plywood floors were epoxied in place, to stiffen and subdivide the space, also create small collection well over the drain.
After coating the inner hull with International Danboline, drain channel of half 20mm plastic conduit were fitted as shown, secured with sealant.

To prevent the lead ballast sticking to the shell and floors, these were covered in polythene sheet and parcel tape.
Hopefully, this should allow the ballast to be prised out in future, if necessary.

Lead shot was mixed with West Epoxy into a thick slurry in a bucket and poured into each bay in turn, levelled with the top surface of the inner lining.  (400ml of epoxy mixed 7.5kg of lead shot.)
Initially I tried putting some dry shot in the first bay, then adding epoxy, mistakingly thinking it would soak around and mix with the shot. This didn't work well at all.

On completion, the cabin sole was covered by a sheet of epoxy coated and painted 12mm ply, fastened in place to the perimeter of the inner lining using stainless, self tapping screws, with small access hatch above the bilge well.

Additionally, approx. 20kg of removable,boxed lead sheet is secured in the after, under bunk storage wells, making 80kg in a all.  Finally, a 22kg H.D. battery is sited under the step aft of the companionway.

(The boat does still float and sails quite well.)

A friend of mine fitted a kicking strap to his Winklebrig, attaching to the back of the wooden tabernacle. Due to the shallow angle, the stress was excessive and it broke up the tabernacle. After making a new tabernacle, he decided not to refit the kicking strap. I think the heavy boom and having the mainsheet on a horse across the stern, help quite a lot.