David Cawston
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 05:52 pm:
I would like to think I have got a very good system for raising and lowering the mast. It is all done from the companionway and can be done on the run. The secret is to have a running forestay with a block at the top of the forestay, one on the bronze fitting up the mast (oh what technical speak!) and a halyard running down to the middle of the starboard triple block.
The roller reefing drum and lower end of forestay remain attached to the bowsprit. They can be quickly detached and stowed inboard when trailering.
The roller reefing line simply runs back through stainless hoops.
The time consuming part of the operation is the lowering of the sail and getting the boom jaws to the side of the mast (I had to renew the jaws after breaking one) and mounting the mast support on the transom. Here is a useful tip, once you have lowered the mainsail, tie as many ropes as possible to the mast and it keeps things tidy with less chance of ropes snagging when hoisting the mast.
Here is a link to a bit of grotty moving picture taken with my stills camera which shows me lowering and raising the mast in 45 seconds. The file size is about 8mb and you will have to turn your monitor through 90 degrees ( or twist your neck). If anyone can compress this file to a decent size please let me know. (if this post is too long for the forum Julian please let me know)
http://www.cawston.eclipse.co.uk/preparingmarkie014.avi
Rest of photos for above post (only allowed 4 per post!)
Julian Swindell
Username: Julian_swindell
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 09:24 pm:
Dave, this all fitted in fine. I'll have a go at compressing your video if I can, I've got some fiddling-about-with-video software on my laptop. I don't think you can turn video through 90degrees.
I haul my mast up with a tackle at the end of the bowsprit, but your halyard makes more sense. I was pleased to see that you use your teeth too. If God had meant us to be sailors, he would have given us three arms.
David Cawston
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 02:02 pm:
Julian, I am so used to taking stills which I can then rotate on the computer that I forgot I could not do the same with movies. What a plonker! Of course it is even easier to raise & lower the mast with no sails/spars attached but this is what we did last year at the IWA National Trailboat Rally on the Northern Reaches of the Lancaster Canal. Lots of bridges and we even did it at night as part of the illuminated cruise. No electrics on board so we relied on glowsticks up the mast. The festival this year is near Grantham on the Grantham Canal over the second May Bankholiday. Great fun but not much sailing. Anyone fancy joining us (your boat will need a BSC unless you come with no electrics, motor, gas etc. Markie has a BSC certificate).
Julian Swindell
Username: Julian_swindell
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 02:10 pm:
I've never tried lowering the mast once launched. How far can you lower it with gaff and boom in place and sail still laced to mast? I was thinking of a quick lower to go under a bridge, say, and then yank it all up again the other side.
David Cawston
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 04:33 pm:
If you lower the mainsail and release the jaws of both the boom and the gaff from the mast, ie they are just hanging to one side of the mast, the mast can be lowered so it is totally horizontal or as low as your type of mast support will allow. Just be careful that the back of the boom does not catch on the transom or get trapped under the mast. The way you have your mast lacing affects how easy it is to reposition the jaws, a fair bit of slack is required to allow the boom to be pulled back off the mast. I will save that for another post. We always like to lower and raise the mast whilst underway especially if there is a good crowd of spectators stood by the bridge!!
nick jones
Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 08:10 pm:
My mast came off a converted lifeboat five years ago to accomodate the sails made to Eric's kindly provided sail plan. While the mast is slightly short, I suspect it is rather stout. Certainly raising it involves substantial effort as I stagger forward with the thing on my shoulder. I am very curious to know how much a WB mast should weigh. I'd tell you what mine weighs but it's getting dark and it's raining
Roger Parish
Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 07:41 pm:
The original mast to my Brig weighs 19kg, is 5235mm OAL ,4755mm from foot to the step which supports the mast band and 80mm diameter. I replaced this three years ago with a hollow mast from Noble Masts and that weighs about 14Kg. It was supplied as an eight sided blank for home finnishing. It looked like a giant pencil on top of the car!
nick jones
Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 08:49 pm:
Thanks Roger.
My mast weighs in at 16.3kg with its three mast bands, and is a mere 5.0m high; (the rot I inherited at the top just had to go). I could probably do a bit more work on the taper - but the real answer is a longer mast that would accommodate a topsail
David Cawston
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 11:24 pm:
As an addition to my posting at the top of this topic, I should add that the rope used to pull up the mast should be fed through a pulley attached to the fixtures on the leading edge of the cabin roof and led back to the cleats on the rear of the cabin roof (as can just about be seen in the movie posted in this topic. Be patient, it takes a little time to download and uses Quicktime).
Pam Freeman
Username: Pam_freeman
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 02:32 pm:
Hi David Cawston! The info you've given here is a real boon; thank you so much for sharing it. I'm only sorry that it's taken me since 2007 to find it now, in 2011!
If you ever have the opportunity, is there any chance that (in addition to all the useful photos above AND the video) you could squiggle a really basic drawing, showing the appropriate ropes etc in different colours, going to their respective cleat, pulley, block etc? No matter if you can't; it'd just help this nerd to make sure she's putting the right things where they're meant to go!
BTW, thanks for the tip re tying bits of string around the mast to keep things in place. One of those ideas you don't come up with - in my case anyway - until it's too late!
Many, many thanks - and best wishes, P.
David Peck
Username: David_peck
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 09:00 pm:
Hi Pam
Re rigging the boat. Have a look at the 'Resources' file at the top of this page, there are some very useful diagrams by Eric Bergqvist, used in conjunction with pictures in the forum on 'The Rig' should be helpful.
In addition you might look at www.capecutter19.com 'Owners' file which has good pictures and rigging diagrams for ideas. The Cape Cutter is a lovely boat, but is Heavy, Pricey,and has some problems of the deck splitting through the load from the rigging. Also lacks the lovely charm of the Winklebrig.
Best wishes
David Peck
Pam Freeman
Username: Pam_freeman
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 03:27 pm:
Thanks for that David P. I'll indeed look at the Bergqvist-oriented Resources above. The capecutter19 bit will be interesting too but I can assure you the Winklebrigs have "got" me totally by the heart. Fingers crossed I might just be buying one for myself - at last - toward the end of the Summer. Time enough to get in some more knowledge and practice, practice and practice.... or should the "ice" be "ise..." I never did get that one right at school!
Best wishes to you,
Pam
Adrian Evans
Username: Adrian_evans
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 11:00 am:
I would add that I have copied the running forestay system that David outlines, and it makes it pretty easy to raise and lower the mast from the cockpit.
As a safeguard against anyone accidentally uncleating the running forestay rope, once I have cleated it off on the cleat at the rear edge of the cabin, I run it forward again, and tie it off on the fitting at the front edge of the cabin.
Pam Freeman
Username: Pam_freeman
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 12:14 pm:
Got it! Have had some dummy runs now on a friends rig and am pleased to report that your system works a treat, David. Many thanks.
Best wishes,
Pam
David_owens
Username: David_owens
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 08:17 pm:
Yes David - I can second that. I've installed your system (as you know), and although I've yet to lower the mast to go under a bridge, I am adept at raising and lowering it single handed when trailing. A great idea.
Jim Davies
Username: Jim_davies
Registered: 06-2011
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 04:45 pm:
David C - I intend to install your mast raising system on Winkle One (of which, you may have noticed, I have taken over custodianship from Ian). I have a spare jib halliard which should provide the makings. Have you (or anyone else for that matter) ever had any misgivings over replacing metal with string?
Martin_cartwright
Username: Martin_cartwright
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2011 - 07:14 am:
No problems at all. In fact the string is better in the Winklebrig application, as with the mast going up and down, it is the metal forestay and shrouds which need watching for fatigue not the string. However,I do find that I have to tighten the mast halliard periodically when under sail in breezy weather, as the purchase on the mainsheet pulls the mast backwards and 'stretches' it. This is easy to spot and rectify as the danger signs are when shrouds become too slack.(NB Don't be tempted to over-tighten the shrouds - simply slacken off the mainsheet and tighten the mast halliard).
David Cawston
Username: David_cawston
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 08:20 pm:
Jim,use Dyneema of the largest size that will easily run through the pulleys, 8mm or 10mm. Dyneema is stronger than steel, stretches less than steel (after initial stretch) and does not suffer from fatigue, as Martin said, a major problem with stainless steel rigging
Jim Davies
Username: Jim_davies
Registered: 06-2011
Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 12:24 am:
Thanks, gents
Very helpful. Now back in Torridon hoping for a final sail for this season
Jim
Martin_cartwright
Username: Martin_cartwright
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2011 - 05:47 pm:
Some interesting things about Dyneema here:-
http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/Articles/Dyneema1.htm
I might make some changes next year.
David Cawston
Username: David_cawston
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2011 - 11:16 am:
A very interesting article Martin. Is there more out there on how Dyneema stands up to UV light, a consideration for those that leave the rigging exposed to sunlight all the time?
Julian Swindell
Username: Julian_swindell
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 10:28 am:
If I add my two pennyworth on dyneema. I have got dyneema shrouds, by default. I had wire shrouds originally, but one of them was slightly damaged, so the builder replaced them, and he is using dyneema for all shrouds now, so sent me a pair of them. Much easier to post apart from anything else. I still have a wire fore stay. The shrouds have been in place now for two full seasons and there is not the slightest sign of degradation yet. By all measures I can apply they are hugely over-strong enough for the job of holding the mast up. I just use rope lanyards at the chain plates. The benefits are that they are easy to role up when the mast is stowed, with no risk of kinking and they are also much kinder on the hand, which is important to me as I am forever swinging around my boat, either to the fore deck to anchor, or just onto a pontoon, and I automatically grab hold of a shroud to steady myself. That was how I discovered the wire shrouds were damaged in the first place... I keep planning to replace the fore stay with dyneema, but keep being put off by the cost. After all, there absolutely noting wrong with the fore stay to justify replacing it.
Martin_cartwright
Username: Martin_cartwright
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 07:39 pm:
What size do you use for the shrouds please Julian?
Julian Swindell
Username: Julian_swindell
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 08:21 pm:
I think they are 8mm 12 strand. The rest of my rigging is by English Braids, but I think the shrouds look like Marlow ropes. I am please dwith them on the basis that I don't give them a thought from one year's end to the other. I have tried, but probably failed, to add a picture showing them.
David_owens
Username: David_owens
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2012 - 08:57 am:
I adopted the 'David Cawston' mast lowering method last year, and gave David's photos and 'how to' to a local, and very well respected, rigger. However, he has fitted 5mm dyneema, with a polyester outer coat - I believe it is Liros Magic Gold, which he assured me was up to the job. However, I've since noticed David's recommendation is for 8mm at least, and Julian is using that. Is my Dyneema adequate, and if not, where and what should I get.? I need UV protection as my boat is rigged, and on the water, 3 seasons a year. Perhaps I should add the boat performs well, and withstood F4/5 with no mishap last year.
Julian Swindell
Username: Julian_swindell
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2012 - 08:49 pm:
I should think 5mm in polyester is well up to the job. The polyester iteself will add soemthing to the strength and dyneema is phenomenally strong. I have got just plain, uncovered dyneema, which I gather is very UV resitant. I haven't noticed any deterioration or any change in fact, after a full season on a mooring. I have fitted a dyeema forestay now, which I hope holds together. I did the eye splices myself...
Richard_cowlishaw
Username: Richard_cowlishaw
Registered: 05-2012
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 06:36 pm:
I intend to install David Cawston's system for raising the mast on Mudlark, how much rope will I need and what type and diameter would be best suited to the job? Also is some sort of kicker arrangement necessary when sailing down wind. Thankyou.
Martin_cartwright
Username: Martin_cartwright
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 12:11 pm:
Welcome Richard.
I can't help you with the rope quantity (as I can't get to my boat yet), but I would say that no kicker is required on a Winklebrig. I have certainly never had the need of one.
Roger Parish
Username: Roger_parish
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 04:20 pm:
Hi Richard.The boom on a Winkle brig is fairly heavy so that would have similar effect as kicker. It is advantageous to flatten the sail/reduce the fall off of the gaff when reaching or close hauled. Try this by pulling down on the boom and see if you notice an improvement in speed or pointing ability. Should use a rope or metal horse as this will enable you to pull down hard with the mainsheet without pulling the boom too close to the centre of the boat. My mainsheet was originally sheeted to the centre of the transom.
Richard_cowlishaw
Username: Richard_cowlishaw
Registered: 05-2012
Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 07:00 pm:
Thankyou Martin and Roger for your advice re the kicker I shall give it a try as soon as I am happy with the mast raising system. I have tried the system but I am not happy with the rope I have used, I bought 30ft which is more than enough,it would not have been such a problem had I been able to visit the local sail maker (Alverbanks)but he is no longer in business and there is such a wide variety of rope on the internet I do not want to order the wrong one.
David_owens
Username: David_owens
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 09:55 pm:
I've never used a kicker either, but I know I haven't sailed my boat in the conditions some here have, including both Martin and Roger. On the David Cawston mast lowering system, the rigger I used charged me for 12 metres of Dyneema. I haven't measured it myself but I presume that's about it. As you can see from the discussion above, on the recommendation of the rigger, I have used 5mm polyester covered Dyneema. David Cawston, who originated this brilliant system, uses 8mm.
Richard_cowlishaw
Username: Richard_cowlishaw
Registered: 05-2012
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 08:08 pm:
Hi David, I have plumped for 9 meters of 10mm 3 strand pre stretched polyester in white, which I have read is ideal for halyards and has been used succesfully to replace wire halyards, two other factors influenced my choice, firstly the 3 strand polyester appears traditional and matches the other ropes on "Muddy" and secondly the price at 2.29 meter compared to 4.99 meter for 10mm dyneema, I agree that dyneema is possible the best but the polyester should be more than capable for the job ( I hope )I will let you know how it is. Thankyou.
David Cawston
Username: David_cawston
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - 11:37 pm:
Hi Richard,
A word of caution over using 3 strand. As it passes throught the pulleys, it will twist because of the lie of the strands and stops the rope from running easily and smoothly. That is also why I have changed the gaff peak and throat halyards to multiplat with a single purchase (the halyards cannot get twisted on themselves), which means although a bit more effort is required to hoist the gaff, it goes up (and down) much quicker, more freely and uses less rope. Regarding the size of the rope for the running forstay, although a 5mm Dyneema is plenty strong enough, I prefer a thicker rope because it is easier to grip and handle.
Richard_cowlishaw
Username: Richard_cowlishaw
Registered: 05-2012
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2012 - 11:09 am:
Hi David, thankyou for that I shall look out for it twisting, hopefully once I have got the mast up it will be staying up for some time while I fiqure out the rest of the rig.